In this episode of the DTALKS Podcast, the dads talk to former Survivor: Gabon contestant Charlie Herschel about having child via surrogacy, the journey he and his husband went on during that process, and finishes with the flight out to meet their child.

This episode of The DTALKS Podcast contains language you’d find in an PG-13 movie. That language is not be safe for most work environments, for your kids, and listener discretion is advised.